The purpose of the UK Recruiter discussion board
is to give recruiters the opportunity to discuss issues relating to their jobs
and the recruitment industry in the UK.
Whilst providers of goods and services to the
industry are welcome to partake in the discussions they should not use this
forum for advertising.
Please read and adhere to the board's guidelines which you will see when you click to "start new topic"
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 15:33 |
| Views: | 2,982 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Personally I always match the tone and manner of prospective clients and let them set the pace for familiarity. As such, I often end up with clients calling me mate - which I don't like that much!!!
Anyway, I agree with you. It's overly familiar. I don't think it applies purely to recruitment consultants. I don't like over familiarity from telecanvasers who interrupt me at 8pm to ask me my thought on BG and insist on trying to buddy up with me. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 16:16 |
| Views: | 391 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
|
Far out - it doesn't mean they actually want to be your mate. Honestly, get over yourselves. Yes, not your mate, I think you're being pedantic. Been living here for a long time now and I STILL don't get the UK business way of being frosty for the sake of it. If it bothers you that much why not just tell them so? In a nice way of course. How about, "oh perhaps you didn't get my name, its joe bloggs". |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 16:22 |
| Views: | 360 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
A lot of people don't like over familiarity as a sales tool. I don't think that it suggests that everyone in the UK does business in a 'frosty' way. I think it's more about professionalism.
I have very good relationships with a lot of my candidates and clients and most of them have become good friends over the years. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Not Your Mate |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 16:29 |
| Views: | 398 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Liz and On Your Own
Thanks for for your comments Liz, very much welcome
On Your Own. I'm aware that they don't actually want to be my mate and I won't apologise for UK and it's adherence to manners.
It's not being frosty, just professional. In time and when you have met people and built up an understanding I think there is call for any amount of banter but what I am talking about is people who I have never spoken with before calling me mate.
There is a difference. Yes I do tell them but my point is why are they not being trained as professional recruitment consultants trained as Liz suggests to mirror her clients, instead they come across as telecanvassers (not wishing them any dis service of course!) |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 16:59 |
| Views: | 374 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Lots of recruiters are still perfectly professional and have good manners whilst being engaging and open: frostiness is easy to do, its far harder to be genuinely interested in every call you receive/make.
The mate thing is everywhere I agree you only need to look at the candidates on the apprentice to see how pervasive it is.
Mirroring is a very old technique anyhow (maybe they are doing that to you?) - just as an aside - do you answer the phone in a particular way that might encourage the mate thing?
what are your thoughts on the "wouldn't you agree?" line which seems to be everywhere at the moment.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Tuesday, 29th Apr 2008 19:24 |
| Views: | 394 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Mirroring is an old and good technique. It's not just used in recruiting I'm sure. It's just a communication manner that happens automatically when you are in sync with someone.
Not sure I've heard the 'wouldn't you agree' phrase, but it certainly sounds like a typical 'filler' phrase! I'll probably hear it loads now and it will drive me crazy...thanks for that ;)
I completely agree that banter is great when you get to know a client/candidate, but I know that if I did that initially with clients they might think I was a bit crazy - it just doesn't work with a lot of people.
Put it this way, even though it might not bother some people, it might bother others. Not being overly familiar is unlikely to really rile anyone (unless they're short of friends and want some instant ones). So I figure that I don't want to risk losing a potential client right from the get go. Why would you increase your chance of alienating someone?
I'm genuinely interested in everyone I call; it's just that I'm more interested in their business, their function in said business and how I might help them in the future than in becoming their friend. That is sometimes an added bonus after time, but it's not an essential for me. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 08:14 |
| Views: | 373 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
at the risk of labouring the point - when someone says "mate" it does not mean they want to be your friend! Think the original poster and your last post Liz say a lot more about you than the people who call you mate.
Thats what I mean about being a lot of business over here being frosty to the point of rudeness - its the initial reaction of "who are you to call me mate, I have enough friends thanks and I'm awfully important" which proves it.................they don't want to be your friend, they are trying to break the ice which is obviously something they feel they have to break to even start to engage...............
bad mood this morning sorry!
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Gaz |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 09:04 |
| Views: | 384 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Rapport
For every one person I tick off, there are 100 people (clients out there) that I get huge buy in from - I dont know whether I use some hyper "big worded" selling tool, or some voodoo form of NLP etc, I just really understand, the value of rapport with people - clients especially - it works 99% of the time, in fact, i'd go further and say that ity works
I would say that if your going to be friendly with clients from the offset, you need to hit them with lots and lots of confidence, but this is the key thing, you need just as much outward humility as you do confidence - the ones that I expect tick people like misery guts "Not your Mate" off are the ones who are more scripted in their friendliness.
In an initially conversation with grumpy nuts here, I dont just say mate, I use buddy, cheif, captain, dude etc all the time. It works well if you can do it and it works well if you are focussed on Rapport.
There are always gonna be frosty people out there, and people like this dude sit in their ivory tower, miserable and twisted, and I am not sayiong that you need to be hyper friendly, but what I would say is that you cant please everyone, but if you get the right level of rapport going from day one, your onto a winner.
See you later mateys. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Flash |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 09:37 |
| Views: | 415 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
I think people are jumping on the one extreme or the other band wagon here. If you are conducting business, no matter what business it is, you need to be conducting yourself with a certain degree of formailty and professionalism. To address someone as "mate" within the first conversation and quite early on is informal and I believe, unprofessional.
If you want to make a business relationship happen, it's best not to go down this route. In the same aspect, if my bank called me about something and addressed me as mate, I would correct them. Not because I'm being stuffy or frosty but because as recrutiers are, they are providing a service so some level of business speak and sense is expected.
I don't think that if someone prefers you not to call them "mate" they think they are better than you. I think that just as your language should be affective as to the situation you are in, this should be represented here. Your not in the pub for crying out loud, your trying to win business!
I don't think it's too frosty, I don't think it's too informal, I think that it's just not the right time, or place to use it. As Liz suggests and as I have found personally, over time you get to know your clients quite well, it's better left in this situation... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | client??? Not!!! |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 11:13 |
| Views: | 373 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Oh boy,
don't you love recruiters!!!
Good to see you have grasped the importance of effective communication.
As a director of a company that hires in the region of 30 people per month it is worth noting that I too receive a number of calls from recruiters canvassing for business.
Occasionally the recruiter is over familiar and I (rightly or wrongly) judge this as the basis for the professionalism they would bring to any business relationship. They get short thrift.
Whether you agree with me is irrelevant. If you believe that being familiar is more important than winning business then good luck to you. Just don't bother calling me! |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Greg Horne |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 11:31 |
| Views: | 372 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
As a recruitment director with nearly 15 years in the business I am scratching my (balding) head in utter bewilderment that anyone in the industry would even try attempt to defend what amounts to barrow boy attitude.
First impressions count and are often an indicator of the level of service/attention/delivery you are likely (or not) to receive.
There are business standards which some people just aren't cut out for. All the better for me and my team. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | MYMATEMarmite |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 11:52 |
| Views: | 374 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Unfortunately I believe that it is indicative of society today, whilst there will be those that are professional and courteous, there will be more that are a little more slack in there approach.
Depending on the industry I would imagine that they would not tend to last too long unless they change their ways.
In addition I would also say to: “Not Your Mate”
“I receive probably 20 calls a day from recruitment companies and rather unusually I don't mind taking them and wherever appropriate answering questions etc”
Good to see that, what’s your number?
And client??? Not!!!
As a director of a company that hires in the region of 30 people per month
Please let that me be my sector, can I call you?
Always look a gift horse in the mouth
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 13:20 |
| Views: | 367 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Are you really suggesting that someone who is "over familiar" is likely to give you bad service? Personally, when I deal with someone who can't crack a smile once in a while I do wonder what they are hiding!
What exactly is over familiarity anyway? It seems that people who get offended by excess levels of familiarity all have an inflated opinion of themselves and their own importance. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Flash |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 13:39 |
| Views: | 377 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
On my own, you're taking it too far. You can be familiar, build common ground and rapport with someone without being overfamilar!
It's not a point of bad or good service, it's a point of invading people's comfort zones in repesct to how they interact with others. There are some people in the world who are happily confident, at ease with themselves and others who enjoy this kind of approach. There are those who lie in the middle, don't really have an opinion on it, and there are those who are not too confident, not particularly good at interacting at this sort of level without having met someone face to face.
You seem to be taking it as a personal insult that not everyone communicates at the same level you do. Frankly, thats selfiish and insulting in itself, and it would appear you need to get socialised and see situations from someone else's perspective every once in a while...
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 14:08 |
| Views: | 381 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
I agree with Flash that you're taking it too far and too personally. The vast generalisation that people in the UK are frosty etc is also insulting.
Why do you feel the need to build excess levels of familiarity as you put it? |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 14:29 |
| Views: | 367 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
err hello - I've never said I communicate at this level. And neither did I say I needed to build excess levels of familiarity. Read the whole discussion. I was asking what exactly is overfamiliarity because it seems to differ widely from person to person. Hence the varied responses to the OP.
I just can't understand why people would get offended by others that are apparently over familiar. Whatever that is.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Richard |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 15:45 |
| Views: | 379 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
'mate' is cheap and inappropriate in any business situation. It's almost a sarcastic word with how much it gets used in today's business environment.
Personally, I believe that in the UK we are frosty/cold in our dealings, hence why 90% of my business is conducted in the US where it's more informal but still professional and no one uses the word 'mate'.
I agree with the original poster, do not call me your 'mate', ask my name and use it. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Flash |
| Date: | Wednesday, 30th Apr 2008 15:48 |
| Views: | 375 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
FYI, I did read the whole discussion and have contributed to it earlier.
Overfamiliar: taking undue liberties being the dictionary definition but of course it all depends on the situation it is used in as to the depth of it's meaning.
In this case, overfamiliar would imply overfriendly. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Bootlace |
| Date: | Thursday, 1st May 2008 09:13 |
| Views: | 419 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Gaz says ", I dont just say mate, I use buddy, cheif, captain, dude etc all the time."
Personally, if anyone used any of those terms to me the 'rapport' would not be gained and I would treat them with disdain as being unprofessional. As such I would never use those terms when communicating with my clients who are all in the IT industry. Maybe if you are placing builders & the like it would be appropriate (?) but the most informal I think you should be and still be professional is using someone's first name.
It may also be an 'age thing'. The younger generation (29 and under) communicate in ways which are different to those of other generations (innit wiked n phat not neeky dude). However, bear in mind that most decision makers will be in the older generations ! |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | John_Radcliffe |
| Date: | Thursday, 1st May 2008 09:43 |
| Views: | 401 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Possibly an age thing, likely more of a superiority complex. I'm 22 and thankfully I was raised with manners and some level of humility. I respect my elders and if someone is higher up on the food chain than me with regards to their professional occupation, I'll respect that as well. 9 times out of 10, they worked their backside off to get there.
I think an issue that a lot of recruiters have, (not all recruiters before anyone shouts) is that they have a lack of respect and an inflated sense of self importance. If they have a particularly good 3 months and bill alot of money, they think they rule the world. That is until they don't bill at all.
I beleve due to some of the enormous ego's I have come across in this industry in my short time in it, to respect someone enough to communicate to them on a professional level isn't something they take on board. Why should they show respect to anyone? they billed 70K last month?! They earned their right to talk down to people!
I agree with Flash on a lot of this, when they then have to communicate with someone on a different level to nromal, they resent it. Their selfish personas dictate to them that it is their way or the high way so to speak.
Just my opinion... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Gaz |
| Date: | Saturday, 3rd May 2008 17:24 |
| Views: | 396 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Bootlace,
To be fair, I did exagerate a wee bit when I said I use "buddy, cheif, captain, dude etc all the time"
I would say though, that I actively build rapport by creating familiarity with my clients all the time, and I really do think that it works extremely well.
I dont pick up the phone and say to a new client "how are you buddy, are you recruiting mate, whats the word on the street captain with regards to recruitment bud?"
But familairty and friendliness, and the use of informal words is extremely powerful, I would argue, more powerful than when not used.
I dont do IT recruitment Bootlace... I do accountancy, Qualified.
My clients are typically Qualified Professionals, Finance Director / Controller level (not builders)>
See ya later mate/
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Ste |
| Date: | Wednesday, 7th May 2008 11:09 |
| Views: | 372 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
I work as a freelance researcher, I client of mine recently gave me a list of companies and asked me to find out who the "decision makers" would be in each one.
I fininshed the project and now my client can approach a person with a name.
This I believe is the easiest way to build rapport as well as sounding professional.
But this is only my opinion |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Gandalf |
| Date: | Wednesday, 14th May 2008 10:33 |
| Views: | 412 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
Well this was a good way to polarise people!
As a recruitment consultant I get just as pissed" off when people call me mate first time out. It's just silly and rude.
On the other hand if we get even 30 seconds into a call, hit it off well, get a laugh and THEN someone calls me mate that is not a problem.
It's about doing things in the right order and as I see it straight after saying "hello" is not the right time to start calling someone "mate" in a professional relationship.
Some clients will see this as perfectly normal, some might even like it, and some consultants can carry this off with just about anyone. As a rule of thumb though it's just bad form. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | Aaanx |
| Date: | Tuesday, 20th May 2008 14:23 |
| Views: | 383 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
I love these threads! You get the pompous responses and the extremely laid back responses and somewhere in between there's a slim nugget of sensibility. Keep it up!
By the way, I come from Australia where using the word mate IS a professional business approach. Can't see it catching on here though, so I don't use it that often. When in Rome.... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | cw |
| Date: | Thursday, 22nd May 2008 16:33 |
| Views: | 387 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
I suppose it's better than 'Mush' which used to be used a lot when I was younger.
But I agree, business is business. Use business etiquette until you have developed a relationship ( only takes a short conversation sometimes) with the client and you can be sure that you are using the most effective form of address. After all, it's not about what YOU are comfortable using, it's about what the CLIENT is comfortable with. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Don't Call Me Mate |
| Author: | RB |
| Date: | Thursday, 22nd May 2008 17:23 |
| Views: | 366 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=89209 |
|
In some respects the use of this (sometimes friendly language) works well with many clients within certain industries. I agree that using "good afternoon mr smith, how are you bud" is a very un-proffessional way to start a call. An experainced caller can generally gage the tone of the call and the attitude of the client/potential client within the first 30 seconds of speaking for which they chose or not chose to use this (freindly language) thereafter.
On the flip side, I have to say that this is a changing world with a younger generation coming up through the ranks who use and acknowledge this use of language on a daily basis.
Out of my few years in recruitment I have only had 1 person ask me to start my pitch again.
Trust me, I have made a few calls.
RB |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
Please note: The reply form is not showing because the posting is older than six months or the thread is locked. Please start a new topic or contact the forum administrator.
|
|
