The purpose of the UK Recruiter discussion board
is to give recruiters the opportunity to discuss issues relating to their jobs
and the recruitment industry in the UK.
Whilst providers of goods and services to the
industry are welcome to partake in the discussions they should not use this
forum for advertising.
Please read and adhere to the board's guidelines which you will see when you click to "start new topic"
|
Home > Forum > UK Recruiter Discussion Board > Message |
|
|
|
| Start New Topic | Message Index | Threaded View |
|
| No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | Carl |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 10:11 |
| Views: | 300 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
I work for a company with very limited resources, for example, we have no database, it literally an excel spreadsheet, and has no search facility etc.
We have been promised a state of the art system but nothing has materialised, this has been going on for best part of 18 months.."we will have one next month" i hear this every month!
The only resources we have is the likes of Jobsite and CV Library, and when we are up against the big players in the market we have no chance.. You are all probably thinking, network with clients, referrals etc, yes we do that, however that does not take the emphasis of us having no database, when everyone else does.
I need to talk to the MD about this urgently and wondered if any fellow recruiters have any advice of how to play it?
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 10:36 |
| Views: | 3 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
I think a lot depends on whether you're in the perm or contract market.
If it's perm, then I'd be less concerned about owning a database and concentrate more on outselling the so called 'big players'.
Nearly all of the big agencies (especially the ones that are sector-specific) are just selling the fact that they have lots of candidates and nothing else. The reality is that most of them are simply sharing the same oft-circulated candidates that they rely on time and time again to parade job openings in front of. A database of candidates by the way, that is in part at least, easily replicable by any other non sector-specific recruiter who knows what they're doing.
Try selling a different approach to filling a clients job rather than competing with the agencies with bigger databases.
Having said all of the, I am surprised that an agency like yours (I googled them) doesn't have an ATS.
If the outselling option is available to you then you should consider finding another agency to work for. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | Tom Atkinson |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 10:37 |
| Views: | 3 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
Hi Carl,
This is very simple. Just create a simple business case for your MD. Do the sums for him. Make it easy for him to take the action you want.
Firstly estimate the increased revenue the compnay could get using the database you want. Estimate what that means in terms of gross profit. Get the cost for the database and take that cost from the gross profit and show your MD that there is money to be made.
Then ask your MD if this profit generating tool is affordable and let him make the decision. If he has the cash and your case is a good one, his decision will be a "no brainer".
A mate of mine describes the art of diplomacy as letting others have your own way.
If your MD likes the idea but doesn't have the cash, tell him to contact Perms Simply.
Hope this helps. Tom. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | castlelgr |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 11:05 |
| Views: | 1 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
In my 8 years in recruitment, I have only once filled a role from a candidate in my database.
I do however monitor and keep in contact with the candiates I like and feel I may be able to place in the future, but you dont need a database for that.
Like any recruitment tool there is no way of knowing whether a database will increase your revenue. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | Ben Stoneham |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 11:39 |
| Views: | 2 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
@castlelgr
That's an interesting observation. I'm curious as to why that is (from your own perspective).
I know from experience that a large number of candidates that are 'sourced' from job board CV pools very often turn out to already be recorded in an internal database (this is a non partisan observation by the way, I think its universally true of all systems)...
Much to the frustration of owner/ managers because of course everyone is paying the same Job Boards to access the same candidate pool which means there is very little for the agency to leverage in terms of their own proprietary IP in this respect (but this is something that still gets heavily played to the end clients I think).
In you own case, has your environment changed to such an extent that internal candidate databases are no longer efficient for example?
Or are you sourcing by another means (networking for example).. or have you just got 'out of practice' looking at the internal database first before going to the job board?
Not an criticism.. its something that we hear people say and I'm always keen to get different viewpoints that's all.
The feeling is that the perception of 'the most relevant/ best' candidates always being on the jobboard is one key driver for some sectors.. but obviously its not a great situation to be in as to some extent it leaves the agencies ever more in hock to the job boards (which doesn't build value for the agency owner and leaves them vulnerable to changes in pricing or policy).
Interested to heard any opinions on this.
Cheers,
Ben
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | castlelgr |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 12:06 |
| Views: | 2 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
Ben I think it is because every time we get a vacancy the requirements are different from requirements we have received in the past.
Therefore the candidates on existing database dont fit the role. Even if we do get a similar requirement the candidates on database have moved, either been promoted to a higher level or are no longer interested in moving.
A database is essential but when I first started my company my database consited of a few folders on my desktop and for a year that worked just fine.
I find networking or actively searching job board databases the most efficeint way. Yeh everyone has access to those daabases but hardly anyone uses them effectively.
A database is good if you recruit similar roles all the time I suppose but most of the time you wont get the same job that often. And even then you should have a list of the best candidates for those roles and not really need to search a database to access them. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | Ben Stoneham |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 13:19 |
| Views: | 5 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
@castlelgr
Good point about the degree to which your roles vary, but presumably there must be a fair number of cases where you find a candidate on the job board that might already be in your internal DB (assuming all candidates you had contact with in the past continued to get added)?
Our own stats show something like 30% of all activity across our own customers is around candidate search, so people do search their internal DBs too.
What I don't know though is what % that is compared to external search activity (varies a lot according to sector I suspect).
There is then the issue if 'currency' I suppose - i.e the problem with a candidate in your DB is that you don't know if they are actively looking (assuming one doesn't stay in touch with all candidates which I think most agencies would concede they aren't)....whereas if they have been recently active on a job board, you can by implication say they are likely to be in the market.
As you say, different types of agency do have different approaches and needs.
I think you are also right that many don't use the search tools that are available very effectively and I think we on the software side of the industry have also been guilty of providing ever more complex/ sophisticated search capabilities that don't often match the speed/ convenience logging in to a job board and performing a simple keyword search.
My instinctive feeling though is that there *should* be value that can be leveraged in the candidate IP contained in an internal DB (obviously this completely ignores the workflow/ process side of any value in these systems)..
As I say, Clients do perceive it as valuable (and I guess its generally in agencies interests to maintain this value as otherwise it plays to the 'well why don't we go direct to the jobboard' notion - however ill conceived).
Providing an end-to-end solution for getting the candidates in form the jobboard (candidates respond to ad>straight into the DB for shortlisting, consultant notified) I think does help.. but there is still a strategic gap for many business owners in terms of wrestling back control from the jobboards who many complain have everyone by the cahoonas right now.
I'm going to go back and re-run some analysis we did a while ago.. I can work out from our parser de-dup logs what % of the candidates now coming in to our platform from adverts placed on the jobboards via Broadbean already existed as a record.
My guess is quite a few (10-20%?), but we'll see.
Cheers,
Ben
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: No Recruitment Database.. |
| Author: | liz |
| Date: | Wednesday, 28th Jul 2010 18:42 |
| Views: | 9 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Recruitment Software | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=210052 |
|
I'd agree about creating a business case for your MD if you really, really one.
However, I've worked without a decent dB in the past without a problem - get some good old fashioned record cards!
It's not ideal in this day and age because you can end up duplicating conversations and that doesn't look professional. If ultimately it bothers you then start looking around.
I think a good dB really helps personally, especially if you have a few consultants and no candidate ownership, like us. |
|
|
