The purpose of the UK Recruiter discussion board
is to give recruiters the opportunity to discuss issues relating to their jobs
and the recruitment industry in the UK.
Whilst providers of goods and services to the
industry are welcome to partake in the discussions they should not use this
forum for advertising.
Please read and adhere to the board's guidelines which you will see when you click to "start new topic"
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Bob |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 10:22 |
| Views: | 46 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
An introduction in my book only counts when a client interviews a candidate. Sending over a CV does not constitute an introduction and if the client is able to approach this person directly then unfortunately there is very little you can do.
It is very unlikely that it would stand up in court even if you did have emails.
You have to take a rational response and make a decision based on how much you value the clients business before you judge your response. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 10:30 |
| Views: | 52 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
My TOBS cover this, an introduction constitutes a submission of a CV. If the client is already in touch with the candidate they must inform us in writing within 7 days.
I don't particularly value the client to be honest so am prepared to make a few waves. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Graham |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 11:12 |
| Views: | 54 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Paul,
As devils advocate:
You can't claim an introduction to the client because the candidate has already worked there! The client called you and told you he wasn't interested in pursuing.
Is it possible you assumed that he meant he didn't want to employ the person, when in fact he meant he didn't want to pursue the candidate thru you? (He already knows him)
Of course you can do whatever you like to get a fee, obvious route would be through the small claims court. But I think you are unlikely to win, it will take at least 6 months to get any decision and you will spend money and indeed lots of time on it.
I humbly suggest that something is learnt, particularly by the consultant. If you attempt to introduce and individual to a client that he or she has already worked for, you are in dangerous waters from the start. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 11:22 |
| Views: | 48 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
With all due respect, a candidate having worked somewhere before does not and should not mean he isn't submitted! It happens all the time. The candidate asked us to represent him and was happy to be submitted - he just allowed the client to manipulate the situation to avoid a fee. We are not a free introduction service. If we invest the money and effort to sourcing a candidate, we deserve a fee.
The client has pulled a fast one here, end of story. If he was already in touch with the candidate upon submission he would have told us instead of lying and saying he was not interested in him.
He has behaved unethically. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Bob |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 11:42 |
| Views: | 59 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Im pretty sure that even if your TOB state that an email counts as an introduction this would not stand in a court of law.
Did the client sign agreement to these terms? Or did you just attatch them with the CV?
What would stop you sending every CV in your data base / on the monster data base to the client and thus creating "ownership" of every candidate on the marketplace?
An introduction has to be at least the creating of meeting or the implied intention to create a meeting between the client and candidate, not just firing over a pdf. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Ruffski |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 11:56 |
| Views: | 53 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
I can't see you resolving this matter to your satisfaction even if you do find the emails. The fact that the client already knew the candidate and that the candidate had worked there previously amounts to your actions not being construed as an introduction, but as a notice of the candidate being interested in new opportunities. I can't see a court awarding in your favor for this, despite the client perhaps not acting in an honest and open manner (I say perhaps as maybe they did and your consultant has misinterpreted what they have said to mean something else)
I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see this going your way so perhaps it's better to learn some lessons and move on as your time is money and legal fees to bring this to a conclusion are very costly. If you had all of the evidence, then perhaps something could be done, but I personally think you are fighting a battle which has already been lost.
Good luck to you whichever route you take.
Ruffski |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 13:28 |
| Views: | 68 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Just to clarify, I undestand the legalities of this and they are not as black and white as some of you say.
I am not looking for comments on my chances, I am lloking for a strategy to approach this company to maximise my chances of a fee.
My instinct is to approach the manager directly by telephone to catch him on the hop. I will not be aggressive, i will consider it an oversight. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Tony Restell |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 13:37 |
| Views: | 55 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
I see 3 outcomes here:
1) You're able to force payment of the fee and in all likelihood secure no further business with them
2) You fail in your efforts to force payment of the fee and in all likelihood secure no further business with them
3) You find some way to turn this situation to your advantage
Whilst running job boards rather than a recruitment agency, my natural inclination would be to go for option 3. I would opt for calling the client, making it known that you're aware of this candidate having started work with them and saying that as it's a grey area whether the fee is due you'd rather find some other way for them to reward you for the placement - perhaps a piece of retained work or an introduction to another part of the business that could use your services. Something that sustains and expands the relationship rather than just burning it.
Clearly there are all sorts of reasons this exact response may not be appropriate in this instance, but if you get creative about figuring out a way that this could be resolved amicably and with you getting some new work out of it I think that'd be a pretty good outcome - particularly in the current climate.
Good luck
Tony Restell |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 13:48 |
| Views: | 46 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Tony
That's a good reply. I feel that the best case scenario would be that we are paid something of a fee, the client is happy we have not pushed them for the full fee (£10Kish) and we get future business.
But they are not a massive company, we've made 2 placements so far.
And £10K would be very nice, thank you.
So I'm not going to be too gutted if they don't use us again. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | K |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 14:25 |
| Views: | 53 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
"Tony
That's a good reply. I feel that the best case scenario would be that we are paid something of a fee, the client is happy we have not pushed them for the full fee (£10Kish) and we get future business.
But they are not a massive company, we've made 2 placements so far.
And £10K would be very nice, thank you.
So I'm not going to be too gutted if they don't use us again. "
Then you can jump on your horse and ride outta town. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 14:32 |
| Views: | 53 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
So we take the assignment on an exclusive basis and work bloody hard on it. We find several candidates including this one. They lie to me, tell me that the position is no longer available and get the candidate who we approached and introduced, for free, when a recruitment fee is clearly due.
I do what i can to get the money which is morally and ethically mine.
And I'm the cowboy.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Graham |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 14:52 |
| Views: | 61 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
"I am not looking for comments on my chances, I am lloking for a strategy to approach this company to maximise my chances of a fee. "
Your hopes in my opinion are Bob and No. I appreciate it burns like acid and you feel you have had one put over you, but really you have no chance of getting any money from this.
Do what you like but don't forget this client will know another client, who will know another etc etc. If you really piss them off it will come back to bite you at some point.
Having said all that, your responses indicate that you already know what you are going to do and want some validation.
I for one say go for it. what have you got to lose? He's already laughing at you... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Friday, 1st May 2009 15:00 |
| Views: | 61 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Paul, like almost everyone else has said, you have no chance of getting a fee here and I doubt the client is going to have sense of loss if he can't use your company again, unless you are a specialist in his sector ...and even then it's unlikely.
You should invest your energies in generating another piece of business to cover it. Most importantly, this is all part of learning more about client-engagement and developing the way you assess and gain client commitment. Nearly everyone who has worked in contingency has lost placements unfairly one way or another.
Plus, I don't mean to be overtly critical but ...it was pretty naive to send them a CV of candidate who used to work for them. That was like sending them a free gift.
So ...in order to add one more option to your choice, I would recommend you contact the client and tell them they can have that candidate as a freebie and that you never dreamt of ever charging him a 10K fee for introducing him to someone they already know.
Make him think you have his best interests at heart. It might change the dynamic of the existing business relationship, which to be fair, doesn't sound all that strong.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Tom Atkinson |
| Date: | Saturday, 2nd May 2009 14:53 |
| Views: | 61 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Hi Paul,
I take a different view to many above.
If I read it correctly, then I believe you have been cheated by the client.
You say your TOBs cover this.
If they do AND you sent them with the CV, I believe that you are on a winner. If you sent them with the CV, the client conned you into revealing the applicant's name and having got that, they have cheated you. If you are not going to deal with them again, then go for it. Tom. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Dan |
| Date: | Saturday, 2nd May 2009 18:06 |
| Views: | 54 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Hi Paul,
Im quite surprised by alot of comments on this, in my opinion he should nail these people to wall. But try and be nice about it, well as nice as possible ;-)
I agree mate you're owed a fee, its that simple regardless of if the candidate worked their before. you're introducing a candidate seeking work and was happy to be represented by you. Anyway im not going to argue with anyone on here over it as im sure we all have quite strong opinions so im just going to offer my advice.
I would speak to the client and act stupid, i would ask about the role and see if its been filled. You already know its been filled obviously by your candidate but i would then try to engage him in an email conversation about where you went wrong in your search and what it was specifically about all candidates he didn't like, you know just to help you out. I would then get the consultant who sent the candidate over to do a similar thing with the candidate and see if you can get either or both of them to trip up.
The client and candidate clearly have no respect for you or your business and may even assume you're thick, alot of people assume that of us recruiters. And whilst we may not be Cambridge graduates we're quite wiley :-) so i would use that against them and act stupid and let the client think he's got one over on you and trip him up in the process. Same goes for the candidate.
So in short my approach would be softly softly and dont alert the guys involved you know whats happened then get an email from them somehow denying they work there or have taken them on. This denial would be proof that know they've done something wrong, if they think they're in the right why hide it?
I hope you take them for your fee mate.
Dan
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Guest |
| Date: | Sunday, 3rd May 2009 11:09 |
| Views: | 50 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
I would try and close him for a meeting to discuss, he will think you are wanting the fee but I would go from an opposite stance.
Close for exclusive future business on the basis that this fee is forgotten |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Raj |
| Date: | Monday, 4th May 2009 15:40 |
| Views: | 58 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Tony & Mitch - pretty solid advice.
I faced a similar incident today. Last year, sometime in August, we had sent a bunch of CVs to a client and were later told the position has been put on hold.
Just today I gathered one of the candidates is working for them since November! I have the emails to support my statement, but the HR is reluctant to pursue this. We must understand any one person doesn't have the authority to sign the cheque in the client company. This makes it nearly impossible to extract the fee without putting up a fight with HR. They will not go back and fight for us...they'll want to cover their asses. It's also my fault since I was sleeping all this while...one could have easily avoided this situation with some planning and foresight.
I think it's best to let it go and importantly, learn a few lessons here (archiving and backing up your mails, may be?. But since you insist, here's what I would if I were you:
1. Look up the HR's name on linkedin to see who he knows. Any Sales business is word of the mouth business...and you could lose money and goodwill if you don't play this carefully. It's a smaller world than you'd like to believe.
2. Speak to the candidate and check his side of the story. There may be a few weak links you could exploit.
3. When you do call HR and confront them - make sure you understand the HR does not have the authority to sign the cheque. This is a critical point - since he will not want to go to his superiors with your story - he'll find it easier to fight you off. What you will want to do is check for the people who are responsible in signing the cheque - and those are the guys you should speak to. Have a script ready for these guys, figure out their objections and so on.
Times are tough and it's easy to get carried away and break a relationship. But you never know who this guy knows and who he could refer you to for new business. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Effective Cause |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 11:07 |
| Views: | 58 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Just playing devil advocate. Have you spoken to the candidate to ascertain how he ended up there?
Whilst you may have made an "introduction" as per your terms, and I make the assumption that they are implied as having been accepted.
You also have to be sure, in order to win, that it was your actions that led to the placement. Ie was your submission to the client the "effective cause" of the placement.
So before you consider lengthy legal costs, and just submitting the claim is a pain, you need to make sure that you were the effective cause.
Is the candidate employed in the role you submitted him for, or is he inanother role? If it's a different role, and you cant demonstart you were the effective cause - then limited chance.
What was the timescale from your submission, to the timescale of his appointment. If it was far apart, then you reduce your chances.
Have a google at effective cause
all the best
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 11:46 |
| Views: | 52 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Thanks for all the comments.
Just to put this one to bed:
I've just spoken to the client and it was not him who recruited this candidate, it was a different manager in a different part of the business.
I spoke to the other manager and he actually took this candidate through another agency.
So the candidate played us all off and had two agencies representing him.
I'm going in to see the other manager - he has his own suppliers - and am hopeful of getting business from him. That's all I can get here, threre is now no chance of a fee at all.
Moral of the story...candidates always look after their own interests.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Ruffski |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 13:10 |
| Views: | 50 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Hi Paul,
It sounds like this could be a fairly positive result for you despite the lack of a fee changing hands. You have not had any expensive legal fees to pay and have another contact within the clients business which could prove to be profitable for you. Good luck!
Ruffski |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | K |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 14:14 |
| Views: | 52 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
"What you will want to do is check for the people who are responsible in signing the cheque - and those are the guys you should speak to. Have a script ready for these guys, figure out their objections and so on."
Sometimes dangerous ground avoiding HR - in my experience, they may not sign the cheques but they may sign the PSL.......
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Bob |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 14:30 |
| Views: | 50 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Moral of the story is "Build a proper relationship with my candidates so that they aren't applying for the same company through different agencies"
Quick question, did you meet the candidate face to face? |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Tuesday, 5th May 2009 15:06 |
| Views: | 48 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
"And why shouldn't a candidate look after their own interests? "
I never said a candidate shouldn't look after their own interests.
However, I have seen several occasions where a candidate has allowed two agencies to represent them, and the client has said No to the candidate because they don't want the headache.
Everyone's a loser.
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Wednesday, 6th May 2009 09:16 |
| Views: | 55 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Paul, I think you're on dangerous ground, as a contingency recruiter, to start criticising candidates for not behaving in a way that suits you.
There is a very easy answer to this and many of the other dilemmas you often see recruiters moaning about on this forum. Win more of the work you do on a retained basis. Own the job and the process. That way most of these types of low-end problems would go away.
It's so simple I'm even embarrassed saying it. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Dan |
| Date: | Wednesday, 6th May 2009 13:23 |
| Views: | 55 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Mitch what you have said is irrelevant to the conversation, building relationships goes without saying. The person involved in this knows what you said and learned that in the first 6 months of recruitment like everyone else. The point is should he make a claim for a fee and the answer is yes.
When are you off to your recruitment job Mitch and who are you joining? I look forward to seeing how you do as you clearly know everything, my advice to you Mitch is write everything down now while you know everything because when you're in the job proper you'll soon realise you know f*ck all. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Roy Snart |
| Date: | Wednesday, 6th May 2009 18:06 |
| Views: | 57 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Paul,
I had exactly the same situation, took the client to court and WON. I did however have evidence of the fact that I had sent the CV over to the client and evidence (our computer records) that I had talked to the client about the candidate.
It was in the small claims court and quite a few years ago but nonetheless the principles should be the same.
In a nutshell the judge said he looked at whether we had made an effective introduction of the candidate to the client. He said he asked himself whether that person would have been in employment if we had done nothing. He determined, based on our evidence, that had we not submitted the CV and had the discussions with the client then candidate would not subsequently been employed. We were awarded our fee based on our submitted terms of business (which we could prove we had sent).
The client didn’t deny receiving the CV and having the conversation with me. He just said that as he already knew the guy he didn’t think he should have to pay. The judge asked him if he knew he was looking for employment and the client answered honestly, no.
Good luck
Roy
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Dan |
| Date: | Wednesday, 6th May 2009 19:42 |
| Views: | 55 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Whoops i just read the thread properly and it seems there was a mix up and the candidate was taken on in a legit way. As someone who shouted his mouth off it seems only fair that i admit to having made a c*ck up, sorry guys.
Dan
|
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 09:45 |
| Views: | 53 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Morning Dan.
I would know enough to not send a CV of an ex-employee to a company and I know how to assess client engagement. That isn't learned in the first 6 months, it takes a lot longer than that.
And it's not really about "building relationships" either. I've had calls from agency recruiters who think calling me "mate" and asking me what I'm doing at the weekend is 'building a relationship. It's not. All that is doing is proving what a vacuous idiot the person is.
Building relationships with companies is all about instilling professional respect. That means truly understanding their business issues, knowing a lot more about recruitment than they do and being honest. That is when clients start wanting to pay you money upfront to fill their jobs.
What you seem to fail to acknowledge is that there is anything to recruitment beyond making lots of calls and selling CVs to companies on a success only basis. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 10:20 |
| Views: | 48 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Thanks to the more experienced guys on here for the sensible comments.
Mitch
Dan is correct that you are coming across as very patronising, and also a little bit naive and altruistic. I have been in IT recruitment since 1993 and own the company. And Bob's "Did you meet the candidate" comment clearly comes from someone with little experience in contingiency recruitment. As a matter of fact one of my Consultants dealt with him, not me, and the issue is now totally irrelevant.
And the assignment was on an exclusive, thank you very much. It was another manager in a different part of the business who took the guy on through another agency. Our contact knew nothing about this and I have no reason to disbelieve him.
I went to meet this new Director from the other division yesterday and subtly let him know that we could have caused a real scene but had chosen not to.
In reality it would have been extremely difficult to put a case together - he even works for a part of the business with a different name, but under the same umbrella company.
He has given me a guarantee of exclusivity for his next assignment. I think that's the best outcome for all. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Ruffski |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 10:31 |
| Views: | 55 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Paul,
That sounds like a real winner for your business, so well done again. I like the fact that you have politely advised your new contact of the situation and have managed to get some form of agreement regarding exclusivity on the next requirement, that's a really good approach which in my opinion more agencies should be taking. Far too often agencies will simply try to bully the client company into paying, or go straight down the legal route. Neither of these approaches tend to be successful in the long term, and then the agencies who do follow these methods wonder why they are no longer able to trade with the client company in question.
Bravo to you for showing great commonsense and strong business acumen. You still need to fix a few leaks in your processes regarding the recording and storing of information, but I'm sure you've already got this in hand.
Good luck for the future.
Ruffski |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 10:54 |
| Views: | 62 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Ruffski - you are dead bloody right I have needed to plug some holes and prevent this happening again! This guy - a great biller, by the way, but has only been with us about 6 months, was deleting all his emails AND clearing out his "Recover Items". Presumably because he was having personal emails all day.
I don't really mind the personal emails so the message has been well and truly hammered home with all my consultants.
Often the best billers have the worse admin skills of course... |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 11:30 |
| Views: | 60 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Mitch
Your naivety is apparent through your comment early on in this thread that there is no chance of getting a fee. Even given the circumstances as they later panned out, if I had pushed it I reckon I could have got one. I actually had an identical situation where we introduced a contractor who had an interview then the client put them through his own pet agency. The client ended up paying two sets of agency costs. And I've received fees on numerous occasions for similar situations - although we DID have the documentary evidence for all of those. And I've never gone to court (although I've threatened it)
Also your comment about not sending a CV to a client of an ex-employee shows naivity. I can rememeber literally dozens of occasions where we have placed people who used to work with a company. Often they are very easy placements to make. I'd wake up to that one if I were you.
Glad you found the comments amusing...
I'll withdraw altruistic if you want. But I can't do that with the "patronising" comment to be honest.
All the best to you, I think this thread has run its course now. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Mitch |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 12:02 |
| Views: | 53 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
Yes Paul, making placements from ex-employees can be and is done by agencies...but generally only with companies whose recruitment savvy is practically non-existent.
However, my point was about sending a CV to the company rather than having a phone conversation about the candidate first. But even more pertinent is that when proposing an ex-employee of a company you're dealing with, control of that candidate is absolutely paramount. Blaming the candidate, as you seemed to do earlier is a cop out.
Ex-employees can be excellent new employees, you're right. They're commonly referred to as 'boomerang hires'. It's one of the things I teach companies to do when looking for qualified candidates ...especially for those hard to fill jobs. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Client took candidate direct, emails lost |
| Author: | Stephen O'Donnell |
| Date: | Thursday, 7th May 2009 23:15 |
| Views: | 56 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Other | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=183504 |
|
About 10 years ago, I had an assignment to recruit a Design Engineer for a client in Ayrshire. It was a small firm, and I dealt with the MD.
I quickly identified a great candidate who lived nearby. When I told him of the vacancy, he was surprised. "That's my brother-in-Law's firm" he said. "I play golf with him every Saturday." He knew there was a vacancy, but hadn't applied, as it would have put them both in an awkward situation, if he wasn't suitable. Would he get the job out of loyalty, what if he wanted too much cash, or any number of possible issues.
I suggested that I broach the subject on his behalf, and that by going through professional channels, would help to ensure it wasn't too awkward. If the MD said no, then most of the embarrassment would be avoided.
I called the MD, and told him I had a great candidate. I also said that it was a candidate he already knew, but who wouldn't otherwise have applied. Before telling him the candidate's name, I asked him to reconfirm that he would pay the fee, if the placement was made. Needless to say, he was gobsmacked when I told him. He knew his brother-in-law was looking for a job, and could suit for this, but didn't want to embarrass him by asking him directly.
Long story short. The vacancy was filled, the fee was paid, and the client (whilst kicking himself) was happy.
I made an exclusive introduction of the candidate for this specific vacancy, when it otherwise would not have happened. I earned that fee.
In this instance (in the OP), the recruiter should have identified the potential issues (given the previous employment of the candidate there), and made absolutely sure the paper trail was covered, and spelled it out to the client before submitting the CV. Frankly I'd be kicking the recruiter's backside, and seriously considering issuing a written warning. |
|
| Reply To This Thread |
Please note: The reply form is not showing because the posting is older than six months or the thread is locked. Please start a new topic or contact the forum administrator.
|
| -->
|
|
