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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Bob |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 10:53 |
| Views: | 118 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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It depends on what you specify in your T&Cs. Some agencies demand payment in 14 days which for a large company is utterly rediculous. For a big business payment should be in 30 days and you should not restrict rebates or charge interests until the bill is 60 days over |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 11:15 |
| Views: | 100 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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I'm always interested in comments like this Bob - if you have signed agreed and signed TOB stating payment terms, and provided the service according to terms, why should rebates or interest not kick in until double the terms agreed?
You can be sure that big companies enforce interest and their terms if payment is late.
What are terms for if they aren't respected? |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Bob |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 14:48 |
| Views: | 91 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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On my own, its because you are a supplier, and there are hundreds out there who will happily take your place. As you rightly point out it all depends on future revenue stream. If they are a volume recruiter I firmly believe that being flexible around issues like this will help build stronger relationships. On the flip side if you kick up a stink over what is a piddly sum to these big companies it is a sure fire way to irritate! |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 14:54 |
| Views: | 96 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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well thats exactly the point. A supplier who could supply elsewhere. In terms of building a long term relationship/volume recruitment how can you describe this as a relationship when one party is not playing ball? That is no relationship, it just means you are willing to put up with crap for the privilege of an invoice payment (or not if they quibble over rebates) further down the line. And they will sure as hell shaft you when they decide to put a PSL in place.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Liz |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 15:13 |
| Views: | 91 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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I'd happily let the other suppliers take my place if they aren't going to pay me on time and argue about rebates. If they want another supplier then their employees become fair game to headhunt.
A lot of big companies have the mentality that consultants don't deserve to have their terms adhered to and should be grateful for the business. Like OMO says, that's not a relationship.
It might be a piddly sum to a big company, but it isn't to the person doing the recruitment. If it's so piddly, they should get it paid on time!
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | R |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 16:31 |
| Views: | 101 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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Glad to see there are some out there that agree with me.
It seems these agencies are not adhering to their own terms and letting clients walk all over them, no wonder why so many agencies go out of business. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | GBrown |
| Date: | Friday, 4th Jul 2008 18:13 |
| Views: | 98 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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As far as i am concerned communication is key here. I am a strong believer in making sure i am valued as a supplier and i agree once terms are signed they should be adhered to.
However, if a client comes to me and for some reason or another is going to be paying outside of those terms i will usually come out of it with some tangible gratitude from within the company for being understanding. It happened recently and a client had had a big systems problem within finance and were struggling to deal with it. I was able to get thanks from two line managers and HR for being understanding about the delay and was only paid 10 days late.
If there ever is a PSL review and our success rates are similar - who do you think will be on it? the agency that stamped it's feet when they heard they were going to be paid late or me?
True goodwill from a volume client is worth a lot more than the interest we could charge. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Monday, 7th Jul 2008 16:19 |
| Views: | 96 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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I would say GBrown that your situation is unusual, and most of us would react in a similar way should a client come to us.
However, we're talking about clients that simply do not pay to terms, regularly. Usually big Blue Chips who would stamp their feet should the shoe be on the other foot, but usually its just normal run of the mill recruitment agencies who seem to think that terms don't matter, particularly on the issue from the OP of rebates.
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | R |
| Date: | Tuesday, 8th Jul 2008 10:55 |
| Views: | 92 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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Here's a scenario for Bob & On My Own -
You place a candidate but they leave within the first week of employment, your payment terms are 14 days so what do you do?
1) Just charge them the % of rebate for the first week
2) Credit the invoice of 100%
3) Let them pay then credit the rebate
Interesting to see what others would do.....
thanks ;) |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Graham White |
| Date: | Tuesday, 8th Jul 2008 11:24 |
| Views: | 102 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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If the candidate has only been there a week, I would credit the full amount regardless of terms or whether they have paid the invoice.
I don't think it makes good business sense to charge for someone who clearly didn't work out. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | on my own |
| Date: | Tuesday, 8th Jul 2008 11:37 |
| Views: | 101 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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Interesting question R. Yes, in theory I would expect them to pay the fee that is due according to the rebate. Often it may well be 100% for first 2-4 weeks anyway but that aside-
Here's some back at you:
In this situation would you be speaking to your client about your value in their recruitment process?
Do you believe in your service enough to be able to argue that you are due a payment of some sort for your time/effort/costs so far?
Would you ask your client if they would expect a refund on their newspaper ad if they recruited directly and the same situation occurred?
And what about the clients own part in the recruitment process-they clearly thought the candidate had something to offer otherwise they wouldn't have hired them: in other words, what haven't they told you, what haven't you listened about...
(I would put a caveat on all of the above for exceptional circumstances: eg personal tragedy or something).
Interested in others responses to this. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | R |
| Date: | Tuesday, 8th Jul 2008 12:00 |
| Views: | 105 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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I agree OMO, our fees are quite low in our sector, our rebate starts at 90% and so on.
I think all agencies should get something even if its a small admin fee for their work, as you say we provide a good service and should get something to cover our costs.
Solicitors, accountants etc all charge for their services so why should consultants be any different. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Paul |
| Date: | Wednesday, 9th Jul 2008 11:41 |
| Views: | 104 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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Its a value call from your side I think. Whats the relationship with the client like, how much business have they given me or am I just another recruiter.
By way of example I had a decent deal go through with what i would consider a reasonable client, I had to sign up to their t&c's which were explicit on saying if they don't pay the fee within 30 days then the fee does not have to be rebated. Standard 12 week rebate terms. My guy left week 12, they however took 45 days to pay me and spent 15 days telling me the money had been sent when they knew it hadn't.
They want a rebate I've said your t&c's override your request...not heard anymore. They are still interviewing my candidates, yet to do another deal but that should prove interesting......... |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | L |
| Date: | Thursday, 10th Jul 2008 10:35 |
| Views: | 114 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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An interesting one. I am a recruitment to recruitment consultant and yes I know, we get bad press all the time. However, it is absolutely amazing to see, that despite the fact that our clients are recruiters themselves, some feel that it is ok not to adhere to our signed terms of business on the odd occasion that we have a candidate leave. I feel that we are actually more flexible than most of our competitors, with our standard payment terms at 30 days and a healthy 12 week rebate. However, despite the fact that our invoices are sent out with a clear notification that failure to pay within 30 days will warrant any rebate null and void, oaccasionally clients still feel it is ok to keep us waiting.
I recently had an issue with a client who was issued with an invoice and 45 days later, the invoice remained unpaid. We had chased on a number of occasions, without so much as a response. The payment came in on around the 50th day, with no explanation etc. However, when the candidate then left in their 8th or 9th week, the client was straight on the phone requesting a rebate. Our answer was of course, no. The payment had not been made within agree terms and despite our attempts to chase, there had been no communication. The client then claimed that they had not received our invoice until 30 days after the candidate started. I mean come on, like any small business can afford to sit on an invoice for 28 days and then suddenly decide to send it out?
On a different occasion, we had a candidate who was in a car accident on her 10th day of employment with a new company, had 3 weeks off sick and resigned. Without question, we gave a 100% rebate, even though the client was slightly late in paying as they only actually got 9 days out of the candidate!
I would expect more from fellow recruiters, seeing as it is the R2R businesses that always get a bad press, but actually, many recruiters do not follow what they preach to their own clients and so for me, if the payment has not been made within a very reasonable 30 days (apart from where a client may have called to make us aware that they need an extension with a valid reason) then no rebate is to be given if the candidate leaves within the agreed terms. Otherwise, what is the point in agreeing terms of business in the first place!! |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | R |
| Date: | Thursday, 10th Jul 2008 12:10 |
| Views: | 93 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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I totally agree L. A lot of agencies are not adhering to their own terms and those that do adhere to them, are made out to be the bad ones, by just sticking to what has been agreed.
Yes we are flexible but we provide a good service and want rewarding for this. |
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| Reply To This Thread |
| Re: Rebates / replacements |
| Author: | Tom Atkinson. |
| Date: | Monday, 14th Jul 2008 09:49 |
| Views: | 98 (excluding Digests and RSS feeds) |
| Category: | Fees and Terms of Business | | URL: | http://web.ukrecruiter.co.uk/forum/Forum/read.php?i=107870 |
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Hi R,
Not all give rebates. Some give a discount on subsequent invoice.
Provided contracts are good and the REC model is and backed up by case law in respect of payment before any rebate is due - see http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2006/385.html - then there should not be any issues.
Payment terms of less than 30 days are an issue for many Clients who like most businesses run monthly accounts.
The normal legal position is that the Employment Agency takes all of the risk for no reward unless and until the Client engages an Applicant. After that the risk lies entirely with the Client save for any concessions you might make in tyour contract.
I hope that helps. kind regards, Tom. |
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